Prepping for the Discus!

[MandyK]

Hi everyone!

As some of you may already know, I am about to jump head first into Discus care. I have read the stickies, and I THINK I have a good foundation to start with. Although I do believe that, I know that you just can't beat what people with experience can tell you. I'd like for all you with Discus to weigh in on this if you can. :)

Here's the plan:

75g tank + the current stock in my 55g (see sig)

Possible bare bottm with rock, driftwood, and anchoring/floating plants like Java moss.

5 Discus fish to be stocked as follows-- 1, then 2, then 2. (Because I just CAN'T afford to do more than two at a time, IF that)
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Current tank specs:

My levels are always great! With my current stock my levels still read 0,0,0 at 5 days after a W/C.

PH is 7.2 I know this isn't ideal, BUT I do not plan on breeding. In fact, I don't want them to breed.

My fish receive flakes, bloodworms, shrimp, ciclid pellets.
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I can't think of any other relevant information, so here is where you guys give me your opinions and advice on what I should do. Should I alter my plans in any way? What risks am I taking by stocking at those intervals, and so on.

[Indian Woods Angels]

Bare bottom for sure. Be sure to learn how to worm them. This is important in keeping Discus long term.

[Lady10Godiva]

I dont keep discus but I would suggest using a two heater setuo so that if one fails(like overnight) you wont wake up to a cold tank and a bunch of sick discus. I learned this one the hard way this winter with my clown loaches.

On a good note the stand your tank is coming with will hold a canister filter nicely for you.

Also you might have to get a bigger than standard power strip since you likely will be plugging in lots of stuff. I have found once for electronics that have up to 12 outlets (and a long cord so it isnt pulled tight depending on where your outlet is).

[Sandz]

Make sure you have a med kit for the discus. There is a post devoted to this. Its very very hard to get some of the meds without ordering, or atleast hard to get them for the right price.

Bare bottom is always better, I am actually planning on anubias, java fern and potted plants to allow some green with my discus when I get that going.

What prices are you paying for your discus? And what source? I know of a dealer on Aquabid that has really good stock. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwdiscus&1359752409 / Free shipping and he usually has some great strains. If money is an issue, this may be a good solution.

The risk you are taking with this slow stocking is minimal unless you dont have a QT tank. Please pay close attn to the QT proceedure for all Discus.

Wishing you the best of luck!

[MandyK]

IWA- I have some experience worming fishies. I still have a large amount of Prazi on hand. I'll take a look at the med cabinet sticky today. ( That IS one I haven't checked).

L10G- I am sincerely hoping that the 75 comes with a heater rated for it, or over. I am plannin on using my current heater in it as well, just in case. I'm hoping that if they don't have to work as hard that it won't be too difficult to get the tank to the desired temp.

Sandz- Wow! That's a really good deal!! I'm assuming it's $120 for all of them. My LFS charges $50 for 1 3inch. Have you ordered from this person? Or do you know anyone that has?

[Sandz]

I know a few that have and they were always happy. The reviews for him are great and I have talked shop with him in the past. He knows his stuff. Been following him for about 2 years. And yes the 120 is for all 8 fish.

[MandyK]

I put an email in to him today. I haven't heard back. That is so close that I can drive up there to get them! Just 2 hours from me. :)

[Sandz]

Thats perfect! You could tour the hatchery and see what strains he has. I know he had a great deal on these beautiful Crystal Yellow with Cherry red eyes... I almost popped on them but I honestly havnt finished my set up and I want discus to be my last fish.

[gronlaura]

L10G- I am sincerely hoping that the 75 comes with a heater rated for it, or over. I am plannin on using my current heater in it as well, just in case. I'm hoping that if they don't have to work as hard that it won't be too difficult to get the tank to the desired temp.

I have 2 Aqueon Pro Heat 250w heaters in my 75. They are great and keep a steady 77 degrees for me. If you have a black background they literally disappear. I ordered mine from thatpetplace.com, about $30 each ($60 at my LFS).

[Lady10Godiva]

I just got one of the aqueon pro heaters and they do disappear pretty well. I dont remember what temp they go to. They also have a lifetime warranty (and since they arent glass they are sturdy.) I got mine online too because they are so much cheaper that way.

[MandyK]

I'll check thouse out guys! I HATE the look of equipment in my tanks, but I just can't seem to get around it.

In the 75g I'll be painting the back and bottom black, so that should work out IF I need to get a new heater or two.

I'm thinking about getting a power head or two to help with the dead spots. I have a HUGE one in the middle of my 55g, so I know it'll only be worse in a 75g.

The more I add to this project, the more I realize that it's going to be a while before I get my hands on the stinking fish.... Uhg!

[Sandz]

Remember with dark backgrounds pigeon strains will freckle. If you care about that, its good to know.

[MandyK]

Hmm, I'll have to look at that. I don't know if I mind it because I don't know what it is!

[Cermet]

First off, what water change system are you going to use? Also, what is the primary filter? Discus on a budget can be an issue - not sure your stocking approach is a good idea; the first ones will establish control over the tank/feeding area and these could very well bother any new ones to death. Five is a bit on the low level for schooling and preventing issues of picking on the smallest.

I just bought a whole school from a supplier a few weeks ago - very nice fish (2 inch) and the price per fish was dirt cheap (for discus) - shipping was the largest cost. That aside, I was able to start with seven young. This is a 75 gal tank so that number will work (however, I have two adults that will be rehomed - I am using them to be sure the fish learn to eat. Appears adults ignore small discus ... figured that might be the case since in nature the young need to learn from adults what and were to find food - this dose not work with fish of similar age - all my new ones are fighting to determine placement - the adults apear to help suppress that just by going for the food themselves causing the younger, more aggressive fish to decide to eat rather than chase a smaller fish ... .)

Many discus develop spots to help match black/dark substrates (even bare bottom tanks have this issue since that must be painted; consider a light gray.)

Be careful of high currents - discus need mostly still water. Be sure that below the surface the water is mostly calm.

Another point - be careful to cycle and when adding fish, check for spikes daily - discus do not do well with ammonia or nitrites - the ONLY level is zero NOT 0.25 ppm or 0.1 ppm like regular fish can tolerate.

Also, what temp are you aiming for? I consider 84 F to be my low end (for health reasons.)

Finally, food. Are you going to use a high end pellet? Also, young discus need to be feed four to six times a day. (yes, clean up is a pain.) Also, avoid any live foods except shrimp.

[MandyK]

Hi Cermet! Glad to hear from you!

Okay, for W/C's -- I'm probably going to be doing every other day changes on these guys. With my current stock it takes 5 days for anything to show up on a nitrate test, so I'm thinking that should be enough. (Hopefully)

My Primary filter is a AC70, I also have a Aqua-Tech 30-60. That being said I am picking up a 75g this weekend which also comes with a filter. I'm hoping that the filter is at least rated for the tank so that I can just pop my AC70 on it as well and be ready to go.

Due to my getting the 75g I'll be getting 7 or 8 of these guys. I have also been directed to a supplier where I can buy 8, 1.5 inch fish for $120. I can actually go pick them up! I'm so excited about it! :)

The tank is already cycled, and I'll be moving everything over to the 75g.

I'm going for about 83 degrees due to the other fish I have in the tank.

I haven't completely decided on food yet. I have to make a trip to the store to get some more. I'm thinking of buying TetraMin, or something similar. I also feed my other fish frozen bloodworms, and frozen shrimp, along with some ciclid pellets. I don't think anything I currently have would be considered high end. Do you have some suggestions? I already feed about 3 times a day, so a few more times won't be that bad.

Edit: Will they eat my ghost shrimp!?

[MandyK]

I'm pretty sure I know what the freckling is now!! I thought they were supposed to be like that! Haha! Lots of the ones at my LFS have little black specks all over them, but I thought it was pretty. In that case, I'm okay with that.

[Cermet]

That temp (83) will work but I am lost on what other fish? You are raising 8 discus in a 75 and that is a bit over stocking as they grow. Considering the amount of fish waste (for 8 hyper active discus) and food waste will be high. Sure, discus can have tank mates but raising discus is another issue completely. Still, I'd aim to create the best conditions for the discus, not the other fish; that is, if you want the discus to grow properly and reach a good size. While neons work fine with discus (and their temp) what other fish did you have in mind?

Also, filters that come with tanks are 50% under rated for the tank.

Buy high end food on line! Will save at least 50% and eight young will go through a 2.2 lbs bag of high quality pellets in six to eight months. That would be $$$ from a LFS. Flakes are not very good because they lose far too many vitamins in the water before they are eaten. When I get home I'll send yo ua site that sells the high end stuff about as cheap as you'll find. Frozen worms are fine IF sterilized and have extra B vitamins added! Frozen shrimp are always fine but a poor primary food.

Sorry for the delay but the site will no longer load at my house (I'm at Johns Hopkins University right now.) I believe if I edit a large post, this crashes the forum and then it will not reload again - strange.

[MandyK]

Thanks for getting back with me.

The other fish that will be going in the tank are listed in my sig. I'm not against getting a lower number of Discus. Maybe 6 to have a full school?
Whatever number it is NEEDs to work with what I already have.

Please do send me the links to the food! If it is appropriate for my other fish as well I can just switch completely instead of having seperate foods.

The tank I am getting is not from a store. I'm buying it second hand. The guy SAID he thinks it's rated for a 100g tank, but you never know till you see stuff. I just had a guy tell me he had a 100g tank he was willing to trade with me for. I put in the dimensions and it was a 60g... Lol.

I'm also looking into canister filters. I have found someone with some for sale for cheap! I don't know if I'll be getting them though, even though that is my eventual goal.

I appreciate your help! And as you can probably guess since these guys are so expensive compared to other fish, I really want this to work out. I'm hoping to find a combo that will work for me and the fish. I will NOT buy them until I'm fully set up for them. :)

[mojosodope]

With a pH of 7.2 it is very possible that your discus will breed, if you get a pair. Whether or not you will get wrigglers and beyond will be based on your TDS. 5 is a good start and IMO the minimum you should have, discus are definitely social fish and the strength of their immune system is reflected upon the stress level of the tank.

I understand the impulse to get your Discus tank up and running but I strongly recommend against your tiered stocking plan, it's better to get them all at the same time. As Cliff said, you can get 2inch fish at really reasonable costs or I know a great seller that has really good Discus for any budget, depends on the strain and size you want.

You're going to want a high protein diet, varied, I feed a mixture of new life spectrum thera a, discus formula, freeze dried black worms and cobalt's beef heart pellets.

Whatever you do just make sure your setup can accommodate frequent water changes. Depending on your feeding schedule I would say significant water changes every 3-4 days, if you are interested in growing them out to their maximum potential you will be doing 80-100% daily water changes.

Note, if you do buy small Discus online or Discus from the LFS that aren't properly cared for, you do run the risk of buying a stunted fish or having the fish stunted due to the stress of shipping, a good rule of thumb is to get one at least 3.5 inches, that should run you about $35 + depending on strain, (some 3 inch Discus can be up to $140 etc depending on the strain), it all depends on your preference.

ALL pigeon blood discus will pepper if you have a dark background, lots of dark items in your tank, many Discus owners who have pigeon bloods have blue backgrounds.

84 is the general accepted temperature to keep them at, it's at the low end of the spectrum, Germans keep them at 85-86 and they get some massive fish, check out Kenny's Discus, really good prices and is arguably one of the best dealers in the US.

[MandyK]

Thanks for your reply Mojo!

Don't worry, I've thrown out the notion of stocking in that manner. I will now be buying them all at once.

Based on what Cermet told me, I think 6 will be a better number for the tank. I have found a place to purchase them at a reasonable price.

I in no way intend on doing everyday water changes. I know that I won't keep up with a schedule like that, nor would I be able to afford the water bill. Lol! I'm thinking close to 50% every three days.

Peppered is fine with me. I think it looks pretty cool!

I'm waiting to see some links to food for these guys before I make my decision. I would prefer something that ALL of my fish would benefit from so that I don't have to buy different foods.

[mojosodope]

Well sounds you're well off, here are the links to were I got the food at the most reasonable prices:

And 50% every three days is perfect, 6 is a great group also.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002E7K6Q/ref=oh_details_o05_s02_i01

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002E7IWM/ref=oh_details_o05_s01_i00

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=24001

http://www.aquaticfoods.com/FreezeDriedBlackwormsM.html

All the fish in my tank, (Discus, Rainbows, Bolivian Rams) eat all the food readily, my Discus have learnt to eat from my hand when it comes to freeze dried black worms, they along with the rest of the fish go crazy for those. Looking forward to your tank.

[MandyK]

Thank you very much for those links! :)

[Cermet]

Finally, I can get back online with this forum! Can't figure out why this only happens to the home computer - at least I was able to use the JHU library computer (was there killing time waiting for my daughter to finish her Cal III class there. She is too young to drive ... .)

I get the food at PetMountain (http://www.petmountain.com); I get the Hikari food. They are a big time company that makes many types of food and know what they are doing. This site offers the lowest price I've found of late. Possible with work could find some cheaper site.

If you are doing every other day water changes seriously consider a cheap, easy to assembly and small in tank algae scrubber. This has worked well for me - remove nitrates and helps a lot with phosphates. Even helps with the fish slime (that was a big surprise but in good old hind-sight, makes complete sense.) This device saves me a ton of water (and that is NOT figurative!!)

[Knightia]

I don't know very much about discus so am interested to read (and follow) this thread. I look forward to the first set of photos!

[Cermet]

Forgot to add - a HUGE advantage to algae filters are that when the algae starts to grow (1-2 weeks first time, after that, every week MUST clean out all the algae since that stuff grows like no tomorrow after it establishes) is that they will remove any extra ammonia/nitrites very well but will NOT prevent a regular filter from cycling. A scrubber can't compete with the regular bacteria growth, so it will not prevent a filter from cycling BUT will help prevent a bad spike; that does not mean those semi-daily water changes can be droped when cycling a filter with fish - a small in tank algae scrubber can only do so much ... .

[MandyK]

I've heard of an algae scrubber, but I don't know anything about it. I'll have to do some research on to see if I can fix something up.

Firefly- Thanks! When I get the Discus I'll be posting all my pics and stuff in my journal. Of course maybe this is an appropriate time to begin a new one since the old one was for a 55g. Hmmm..

NOTE******

We're not picking up the tank this weekend. The roads are just covered in snow, and it wouldn't be safe to make the 2 hour trip. :( Maybe next weekend.

[Cermet]

Since I am unable to figure out how to do a PM, I'll just post it for now. Std. Disclaimer - This link is not an endorsement nor do I have any association with any company that I provide links. I only provide links to companies I have bought and tested a product and think it might be useful. This in no manner means that the product at the link is right for your needs - end of disclaimer.

If you want a simple design, and if you wish, they sell parts, and units to assemble as well as fully assembled in tank algae scrubbers; see this link: www.Santa-Monica.cc

Bigger units must be built yourself but this design (free) can be used to base your own bigger units on.

[Knightia]

PM = Click on the person's name and you'll get a menu with a Private Message option. :22: