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ijankrom
12-11-2012, 04:47 PM
I have a 25g with 6 blackskirt tetra currently. I'm planning on getting a rubber lip pleco in the future for sure. I'm wanting a rather larger fish that will definitely catch someone's eye when first glancing at my tank - you know to draw them in to look more. Would my 25g be to small for a single angelfish? If it makes a difference, I'm planning on adding a 10g sump wet/dry filtration system. Your thoughts? In case you're wondering, 24 x 13 x 19 are the dimensions.

FinalJenemba
12-11-2012, 04:54 PM
That's an interesting tank size, not one i've seen. I generally consider a 29g with a 30" width as the minimum for an adult angel, they get bigger then people think. You tank is pretty close though, I would only worry about the width. I'd say you could probably get away with it but he'd be cramped as an adult.

Lady Hobbs
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
If you have to ask, then it is. I would not even keep one in a 29 gallon. Sorry. An angel would not "catch" your eye. He would sit in the same spot all day due to lack of swimming area.

Stlouisfish
12-11-2012, 05:03 PM
From what I've seen recommended here in the past for those looking to house an angel, 25 gal is too small - plus, there's the chance that the blackskirts would be too attracted to the long fins anyway.

mizzoutank
12-11-2012, 05:13 PM
hobbs nailed it.

if you gave an ONE angel a 55gallon tank. you'll see him all about.
but if you cramp him in a 25, he'll be in a corner all the time.

you have a good set up for:
One gourami or
One ram

luke77
12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
I would have to agree. I tried one angel in my 20 gallon tall I had and it just wasn't big enough. Now with my 55 gallon I have one large one and the fish seems much more active.

Lady Hobbs
12-11-2012, 05:43 PM
Same here Luke. I have two 55's with one angelfish in each of them. You simply have to allow for those tall fins so they are not getting caught in plants or sticking out of the water.

ijankrom
12-11-2012, 05:48 PM
you have a good set up for:
One gourami or
One ram


Thank you all for your thoughts. Thank you mizzoutank for giving some suggestions. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

fishmommie
12-11-2012, 07:17 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts. Thank you mizzoutank for giving some suggestions. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

Your options for a showcase fish in that size tank are limited. I agree with Missourtank. A nice pearl gourami would be very pretty.
You could consider a sailfin molly. They can get up to 4 inches in size.

Sandz
12-11-2012, 07:57 PM
I would also agree.. 25 gal-29gal is perfect for the gourami genre. Just be careful. I had a school of black skirts and they hunted... I call them and red minors (serpe tetras) wolfpack fish...

mizzoutank
12-11-2012, 09:11 PM
I like the AC and have found people for the most part helpful and kind in their correction of my misinformation or stupid questions they have probably answered a hundred times but answers like this when you already are not sure of what you are doing just discourage the person asking and others reading it from seeking help and unless I have misunderstood that is one of the reasons for the AC

Longest "sentence" ever....:14:

here's the deal. the OP delivered the question as knowing that it wasnt a good idea but needed the confirmation of this forum. just like looking at new lexus....i could get it. but all my friends will say-dumbest idea ever.

so the OP knew it wasn't smart, but needed us to say, ya your right. not a good thing for your tank. how about these other fish.

i'm sorry you took offense to someone else's question and response. but there is no harm, no foul on anyone posting here.

have a good day though.

Lady Hobbs
12-12-2012, 01:46 AM
butterbean......I answered the question that was asked. Almost always if someone needs a confirmation of adding a large fish to a small tank, they already know the answer. They are looking for confirmation to what they already know. Just as mizz said.

I do not take the time to analyze each answer I give for fear of hurting someones "feelings". Sometimes they simply want an honest answer.

inuudo
12-12-2012, 01:52 AM
Longest "sentence" ever....


Hardly. :lol: And it was grammatically correct apart from a missing comma, making it much more readable than a lot of stuff one encounters online!

Being quite new to aquariums and this forum, I have some empathy for what butterbean is saying.

ijankrom
12-12-2012, 06:26 AM
Whoa! Did not expect this post to go in the direction it had.


If you have to ask, then it is. I would not even keep one in a 29 gallon.

Can understand how this statement would appear to come across as rude. I had asked a question and expected your guy's opinion via experiences.


Almost always if someone needs a confirmation of adding a large fish to a small tank, they already know the answer.

so the OP knew it wasn't smart

Some would not agree with me, but I don't think there's ever a absolute answer in this hobby (often not even close). Way to many variables. http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=99790
For if I did not ask I would have probably purchased an angel. Several documents suggest a 29 gal for angel, LH's opinion is that would still be too small. IMHO, 25 is not so far from a 29. I would have gone for it, but I wanted to ask what others experience with angels were. Did not want that buyer's regret feeling.


You simply have to allow for those tall fins so they are not getting caught in plants or sticking out of the water.

If I'm not mistaken the standard 55g is 21 high. Only bring this up as I did not believe I posted the right dimensions of my tank (I'm planning a DIY PVC overflow so I have a bunch of numbers in my head) so I measured again when I got home. 24 x 12.5 x 21

I do my best not to take offense to anyone's post, after all it's said the worst form of communication is writing as it lacks that face-to-face interaction.

For posterity sake lets just agree to not always agree and move on.



Any further fish suggestions. Thank you fishmommie thumbs2:


Just be careful. I had a school of black skirts and they hunted... I call them and red minors (serpe tetras) wolfpack fish...

If you're mentioning this because their know to nip, I was thinking the same. Though several sites state Blackskirt Tetras where compatible with Angel.? Just another example this hobby is far reaching.

Lady Hobbs
12-12-2012, 08:17 AM
I have heard, too, that black skirts can be nippy but in my own experience had not had that. I have a group of skirts now 8 years old that have always been with an angel and in another 55 gallon have 23 black skirts with another angel. No nipping ever going on but then I keep big schools which cuts down any nippy behavior. Obviously in a smaller tank you can't have big groups like that.

I would maybe recommend a few more black skirts and perhaps some Harlequin rasbora or maybe a group of cherry barbs? A group of smaller fish can make for an active tank.

ijankrom
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM
I have a group of skirts now 8 years old ...

One reason why I have Blackskirt Tetras, very hardy fish. In my past fish keeping experience, even with all the mistakes I made along the way, they stayed true. I think I'll stay with 6 for now as I would like to give the opportunity to other species to live in my aquarium. All my fish unanimously agree, it's a 5 star resort/aquarium. thumbs2: :hmm3grin2orange:

Lady Hobbs
12-12-2012, 04:56 PM
:hmm3grin2orange:

You also never know the disposition of an angelfish. They can really be jerks too. I've had 9. Out of all 9, 5 of them would kill every neon they saw. Not eat them.....just kill them because they can. The other 4 paid no attention to them. Another reason they need a larger tank is not just for them, but so others can get away from them.

I was talking to a lady one day that has had one angelfish for years that has killed every fish put in the tank with him. The fish is now 7 years old and has lived alone nearly all his life because he is just a killer fish. She said it didn't matter what size the other fish was, either.

You're right about the black skirts being tough. My son has a group in his 55 gallon and if fish can live at his house, they can live anywhere!

Good luck with that 5 star resort. :)

jeffs99dime
12-12-2012, 05:05 PM
lol. It would more than likely be a 5 star resort for the Angelfish and the pit of hell for all others.

Dave Waits
12-19-2012, 01:37 AM
ijankrom, while it's true that your tank, at 24" is slightly taller than a 55, the 55 is over twice as long at 48". That is a whole lot more swimming room and, believe me, angels will use every inch of it.

ijankrom
12-19-2012, 03:51 PM
Thank you Dave for your input. From what I've gathered in this community regarding Angels, I think I'll stay away from them for now. Sounds like too much of a fish for me.

Indian Woods Angels
12-19-2012, 07:37 PM
Angels are a very complex fish. Most people who breed them just do so to produce a fish or a fish that looks like so.

Beyond this there is another way to breed angels. To breed for calm and peaceful angels. It does a breeder no good to have angels that damage their partners. To spend 9 to 12 months raising perfect specimens to breed together is an absolute waste of time if you place them together and they destroy each other. A wise breeder chooses them like the breeder of every other form of domesticated animal, for docility.

I will raise 50 fish from a chosen spawn and slowly choose the ones I want until I am down to twelve after 10 months. The final twelve are chosen for shape, genetic expression, and conduct. My very best male has had over 30 different female partners in 14 months. He has never marked a single one, not so much as a torn fin. He is very large, his body is the size of my hand, his dimension is 11" from top of dorsal to lowest pint of anal fin. He is a lover in a genetic form. I cross many of my lines into his genes to get this trait of tolerance into my fish.

Those fish which attack each other and can not play nice have no place in my collection. This is why I can place my angelfish fish together with no incidents.

Just as a vicious wolf is now your lap dog, the angel too can and does exist as tamed.

Yet my wild ones do not attack or even damage each other. They posture for certain but rarely make contact. In the wild I suppose the insane ones just do not find a partner and do not reproduce these insane fish.

And so I blame poor breeding by humans and do not blame the fish.

Dave Waits
12-19-2012, 09:08 PM
Indian Woods is correct, I used to breed them myself a long time ago. I had six full-grown adults in a 55 gallon show tank. Happy, peaceful group, never any aggression.

But, they do need some room.